Linux.com Article DB: Linux.com Interview: Mark Micire of the Center for Robotic Assisted Search and Rescue at the University of South Florida.

Linux

Linux.com: Mike, when did you first get into Linux?

Mark Micire: Picked up a silly little book (that I have now lost) that talked about this amazing new operating system. Two weeks later, my Infomagic CDs and Yggdrasil Linux Bible arrived and its been down hill from there. Before I got into robotics, I was diligently on the system/network admin track. 90% of my Linux experience is down that road.

Linux.com: So you're the Linux guru for these robots?

Mark Micire: All of us have to be a "jack of all trades". There are three of us that have been using Linux for over 5 years, so I won't take the "guru" credit for the lab. Each one of us has our own specialties and so we compliment each other very well. Overlap is nice, but it is very beneficial to have people with different backgrounds and experiences with Linux.

Linux.com: Good point. So, what's your favorite distribution and why?

Mark Micire: I'm a Redhat guy. As with any Linux group, our lab personal preferences are split between Redhat, Mandrake, Slackware, and Debian. Most of our robots are set up for Redhat out of the box, so most of our workstations are Redhat. I don't think I ever remember a debate. Since the robots come pre-installed with Redhat we've always defaulted to that.

Linux.com: Are there advantages to the use of Linux (beyond financial) in the supporting software for the more advanced robots?

Mark Micire: Source code availability and tool accessibility are probably the two primary ones. Robotics requires a very flexible programmer, since one might be programming HC11 assembly one day and looking at Java user interface code the next. To do this without being able to rip into source code is frustrating at best. Because the Linux community is typically open source from the start, this helps speed our development immensely. Having the full suite of GNU programming tools is an advantage that doesn't need explanation.

The stability of Linux also cannot be understated. Imagine turning your system on and carrying it around the room while shaking it. This is what the computers in our systems go through every time we use them. The last thing we want to be worrying about is the stability of the underlying OS.

Linux.com: Anything interesting to say about how you got Linux working with those input devices?

Mark Micire: Most of the vision systems work through vision daemons that either utilize the Video for Linux sub-system or talk directly to the card. Almost all of the other sensors are serial or have been adapted to work through serial communication. We are currently pursuing Firewire as another solution.

Linux.com: Can you tell us about any of your principle modifications to the OS or kernel?

Mark Micire: As anticlimactic as it may seem, we have not done a lot of kernel modifications. I think this is more of a testimony to the flexibility and usability of even a relatively "stock" Linux system. The use of the real-time scheduling modules may lie in our future.

Linux.com: Interesting. So what were some of the challenges to using Linux for the USAR robots?

Mark Micire: Driver support for one. Many of the vendors in the vision processing community have limited support for Linux. This is also true for the wireless ethernet community. Although nothing has yet to prove impossible in this area, "challenging" and more properly "frustrating" probably describe this best.

Linux.com: Are there any other advantages of using Linux? Why Linux and not some other Unix?

Mark Micire: The cost is one good reason. When you are spending 10 to 40 thousand on a robot, it's nice to not have to add the OS, development tools, developers supplements, driver SDKs, and other necessary evils to the purchase order. With Linux, it's all there.

Also, most of us were Linux geeks before we came here. I've been using Linux since '94 and really couldn't see us feasibly pulling this off on any other platform as easily. This isn't saying that it couldn't be done under, let's say OpenBSD. It's just that most of the robotics community is already using Linux, we were already using Linux at home and school, and the robots have driver support for some of their eccentric hardware under Linux. In all honesty, there wasn't much of a debate.

Linux.com: Are there other groups working with other operating systems?

Mark Micire: QNX sometimes pokes its head up. The real-time capabilities of QNX are normally the motivator there. Cost is usually the demotivator for most groups.

MS-Windows is very popular with the vision processing community. Driver support for really weird and accelerated hardware is the motivator there. I don't think I need to explain the demotivators.

Linux.com: Why do they make it so hard on themselves?

Mark Micire: Need more than anything. In the case of the vision community, they are caught between a rock and a hard place with regards to the vendors. When you get a product and it only has a Windows SDK you kind of have to deal with it or send the product back. (As we have done several times.) This is especially tough if there is only one vendor and your research relies on this piece of hardware.

Originally Published: Monday, 15 October 2001	Author: S.A. Hayes, Linux.com
Published to: develop_articles/Development Articles	Page: 5/6 - [Printable]
Linux.com Interview: Mark Micire of the Center for Robotic Assisted Search and Rescue at the University of South Florida. Mark Micire helps build and deploy the robots used to speed the search for survivors in the rubble of the World Trade Center. The CRASAR Lab that create these remarkable robots use Linux for most of their computing needs. Linux, and the geeks, researchers and professors who use it are speeding the development of critical technologies like USAR Robotics, technologies that help save lives. Linux.com got in touch with this lab in South Florida to get a closer look at who they are, what they do, and what they do it with.

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Linux Linux.com: Mike, when did you first get into Linux? Mark Micire: Picked up a silly little book (that I have now lost) that talked about this amazing new operating system. Two weeks later, my Infomagic CDs and Yggdrasil Linux Bible arrived and its been down hill from there. Before I got into robotics, I was diligently on the system/network admin track. 90% of my Linux experience is down that road. Linux.com: So you're the Linux guru for these robots? Mark Micire: All of us have to be a "jack of all trades". There are three of us that have been using Linux for over 5 years, so I won't take the "guru" credit for the lab. Each one of us has our own specialties and so we compliment each other very well. Overlap is nice, but it is very beneficial to have people with different backgrounds and experiences with Linux. Linux.com: Good point. So, what's your favorite distribution and why? Mark Micire: I'm a Redhat guy. As with any Linux group, our lab personal preferences are split between Redhat, Mandrake, Slackware, and Debian. Most of our robots are set up for Redhat out of the box, so most of our workstations are Redhat. I don't think I ever remember a debate. Since the robots come pre-installed with Redhat we've always defaulted to that. Linux.com: Are there advantages to the use of Linux (beyond financial) in the supporting software for the more advanced robots? Mark Micire: Source code availability and tool accessibility are probably the two primary ones. Robotics requires a very flexible programmer, since one might be programming HC11 assembly one day and looking at Java user interface code the next. To do this without being able to rip into source code is frustrating at best. Because the Linux community is typically open source from the start, this helps speed our development immensely. Having the full suite of GNU programming tools is an advantage that doesn't need explanation. The stability of Linux also cannot be understated. Imagine turning your system on and carrying it around the room while shaking it. This is what the computers in our systems go through every time we use them. The last thing we want to be worrying about is the stability of the underlying OS. Linux.com: Anything interesting to say about how you got Linux working with those input devices? Mark Micire: Most of the vision systems work through vision daemons that either utilize the Video for Linux sub-system or talk directly to the card. Almost all of the other sensors are serial or have been adapted to work through serial communication. We are currently pursuing Firewire as another solution. Linux.com: Can you tell us about any of your principle modifications to the OS or kernel? Mark Micire: As anticlimactic as it may seem, we have not done a lot of kernel modifications. I think this is more of a testimony to the flexibility and usability of even a relatively "stock" Linux system. The use of the real-time scheduling modules may lie in our future. Linux.com: Interesting. So what were some of the challenges to using Linux for the USAR robots? Mark Micire: Driver support for one. Many of the vendors in the vision processing community have limited support for Linux. This is also true for the wireless ethernet community. Although nothing has yet to prove impossible in this area, "challenging" and more properly "frustrating" probably describe this best. Linux.com: Are there any other advantages of using Linux? Why Linux and not some other Unix? Mark Micire: The cost is one good reason. When you are spending 10 to 40 thousand on a robot, it's nice to not have to add the OS, development tools, developers supplements, driver SDKs, and other necessary evils to the purchase order. With Linux, it's all there. Also, most of us were Linux geeks before we came here. I've been using Linux since '94 and really couldn't see us feasibly pulling this off on any other platform as easily. This isn't saying that it couldn't be done under, let's say OpenBSD. It's just that most of the robotics community is already using Linux, we were already using Linux at home and school, and the robots have driver support for some of their eccentric hardware under Linux. In all honesty, there wasn't much of a debate. Linux.com: Are there other groups working with other operating systems? Mark Micire: QNX sometimes pokes its head up. The real-time capabilities of QNX are normally the motivator there. Cost is usually the demotivator for most groups. MS-Windows is very popular with the vision processing community. Driver support for really weird and accelerated hardware is the motivator there. I don't think I need to explain the demotivators. Linux.com: Why do they make it so hard on themselves? Mark Micire: Need more than anything. In the case of the vision community, they are caught between a rock and a hard place with regards to the vendors. When you get a product and it only has a Windows SDK you kind of have to deal with it or send the product back. (As we have done several times.) This is especially tough if there is only one vendor and your research relies on this piece of hardware.
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