: Let's start - What do you have coming out soon that you can tell me about?
Scott Draeker: Mindrover, Sis Meier's Alpha Centauri, Deus Ex, Tribes2.
Scott Draeker: Er, there will be an announcement of Tribes 2 next week.
Linux.com:You said Tribes2!
Scott Draeker: I mentioned it, but I didn't announce it.
Linux.com: It's going in the article.
Linux.com: Which new title was the hardest to port, and why?
Sam Lantinga: I'd have to say SMAC, but I'm biased. We spent 6 months and fixed over 150 bugs in the Windows version.
Andy Mecham: More like 200+.
Sam Lantinga: Yeah, I try to be conservative.
Andy Mecham: I just verified them all.
Linux.com: What was wrong with SMAC?
Sam Lantinga: Andy, you want to field that? :)
Andy Mecham: It had several issues that slipped through their beta.
Scott Draeker: That kind of game is so inherently complex that it's nearly impossible to test every possible combination.
Andy Mecham: Agreed.
Sam Lantinga: Yeah.
Sam Lantinga: Hey Ryan, there's new bugs in fenris for you.
Ryan C. Gordon: "It's not my fault."
Ryan C. Gordon: As you can see, we have an aversion to SMAC.
Andy Mecham: SMAC is one of the most open-ended games we have, and probably one of the hardest to test.
Stéphane Peter: By the way, we didn't mention Kohan.
Linux.com: To what degree do you guys feel that you're entirely re-writing the games for the Linux port?
Daniel Vogel: Depends on the game.
Sam Lantinga: It depends on the game.
Linux.com: Okay, well what about SMAC vs. q3?
Sam Lantinga: Well, id did Quake 3, so that's a no brain-er.
Scott Draeker: We still did a lot of work on Quake.
Sam Lantinga: We completely rewrote large portions of SMAC.
Scott Draeker: Descent3 was supposedly already 'ported' and we spent what, 3 months? Getting it ready to ship.
Stéphane Peter: We rarely have to rewrite a game from scratch for the Linux version; this happens sometimes for some tools such as map editors.
Ryan C. Gordon: There's a lot of polish that needs to be added to even 'ported' code.
Sam Lantinga: Yeah, it's the last 10% that take the most time. It's easy to port a game. It's hard to make a high quality port.
Sam Lantinga: Easy being relatively speaking here.
Scott Draeker: I'd distinguish between 'port' and product. First is not so hard. Second is where all the real work and expertise kicks in.
Daniel Vogel: Unreal Tournament - Most of the already ported code got rewritten.
Andrew Henderson: It really depends on the amount of 'high-performance' code that needs to be dealt with, like Direct3d, for example.
Sam Lantinga: Prometheus, need I remind you about SMAC?
Sam Lantinga: SMAC had no Direct 3D, but took a huge amount of man-time.
Stéphane Peter: Spell 'self-modifying assembly.'
Andrew Henderson: P-A-I-N.
Daniel Vogel: Actually porting D3D to OpenGL isn't that much of a nightmare.
Scott Draeker: Sure, if you've got the expertise.
Linux.com: Most 'celebrities' in the Linux community are pestered constantly - How much are you guys pestered, and does it slow down production?
Ryan C. Gordon: I get two kinds of email:
- "Can I have a job?"
- "How do I install Mandrake 7.1?"
: Just like changing a timing belt in a 90 Honda Civic, it isn't so bad if you've done it several times before
Ryan C. Gordon
: I don't get pestered so much.
: I guess I'm not a celebrity.
: I get mail asking when our products are going to ship, as well as a healthy dose of e-mail asking assembly questions.
Ryan C. Gordon
: "D00d! U ported Maelstrom! U ROCK!"
: I guess it all depends how visible you are in the 'mainstream' channels.
: Mostly the non-mailing list mail I get involves questions about SMPEG.
: Heheh, yeah, Ryan.
: Stephane is our secret weapon.
Ryan C. Gordon
: The French Connection.
: Notice my special ability to appear and disappear in the office.
Ryan C. Gordon
: "Booh! I'm behind you!"
Ryan C. Gordon
: I guess to answer your question, we get some pestering, but not too much, thankfully, and we work well.
Linux.com: Speaking of hours - What are your individual schedules?
Stéphane Peter: You don't wanna know.
Andy Mecham: Heh.
Daniel Vogel: Usually 12 to 2.
Andy Mecham: Vogel only works 2 hours a day.
Daniel Vogel: I am good.
Andy Mecham: He's that good.
Sam Lantinga: The schedules vary widely, depending on the project and the people working together.
Linux.com: Okay. For the last time: What's the best way to get Game X ported to Linux?
Scott Draeker: E-mail me.
Daniel Vogel: Buy our games.
Andy Mecham: And don't send flame mail to Blizzard asking why the hell Starcraft isn't ported yet.
Sam Lantinga: It's all about units.
Daniel Vogel: Metric system!
Andy Mecham: Bah!
Andrew Henderson: Our requests newsgroup is a great place to let us know about porting requests, as well.
Stéphane Peter: Yeah!
Scott Draeker: We're really good at porting stuff. There is no code that we fear. But you have to support the effort with sales.
Sam Lantinga: I used to fear code. Then I worked on games. Muahahaha!
Sam Lantinga: Now I fear nothing.
Ryan C. Gordon: ph34r.
Andrew Henderson: I have nightmares.
Andy Mecham: j00 R l33t
Stéphane Peter: Andrew, self-modifying nightmares?
Linux.com: Loki tends to import their talent to Tustin. Where are you all originally from?
Andy Mecham: About 20 miles south of Tustin.
Sam Lantinga: 300 miles north of Tustin.
Scott Draeker: Andy is one of the few locals.
Ryan C. Gordon: OldSkool Philly, baby.
Andrew Henderson: About 2500 east of Tustin. Daytona Beach, Florida.
Scott Draeker: Mike is from PA.
Daniel Vogel: Bernd is from Germany.
Daniel Vogel: Bernd has a funny German accent.
Scott Draeker: Leo is coming here from Brazil.
Ryan C. Gordon: Daniel, You're one to talk, eh?
Sam Lantinga: We still need an Aussie.
Stéphane Peter: Daniel, how is Bernd's accent funny?
Ryan C. Gordon; The only English Vogel knows is 'Jack in the Box?'
Scott Draeker: Bernd doesn't drink Bellheimer...
Andrew Henderson: We need someone that speaks Japanese.
Daniel Vogel: Haha!
Scott Draeker: Jason speaks Korean...
Scott Draeker: Andrew speaks 'chu chu rocket' Japanese.
Andrew Henderson: Someday, we'll do all localization work in-house, just because we have the employees that speak all the languages.
Scott Draeker: Joe is originally from Peru.
Stéphane Peter: I thought it was Chile.
Scott Draeker: Raf is from Columbia.
Scott Draeker: Maybe Chile.
Scott Draeker: Yeah, Chile. Pinochet. That's right!
Linux.com: You're all working at a game company. What are your personal favorite games?
Ryan C. Gordon: I don't play games.
Linux.com: You used to; You used to kick my butt at Nintendo.
Daniel Vogel: M.U.L.E.
Mike Phillips: "Powerful!"
Andy Mecham: And that one.
Ryan C. Gordon: Yeah... It's the ice cream stand theory. If you work at an ice cream stand, you can have all the ice cream you want. You can bathe in it. After about a week, you'd rather swallow broken glass than eat any more ice cream.
Andrew Henderson: "How Painful!"
Daniel Vogel: Tokyo Bus Guide!
Andy Mecham: Oh No!
Mike Phillips: Actually, I still go home and play SMAC.
Ryan C. Gordon: Actually, I like Crazy Taxi.
Stéphane Peter: How Painful!
Mike Phillips: Crazy Taxi ranks real high, too.
Andy Mecham: ...and STILL can't hit anything with the railgun.
Sam Lantinga: I like Heroes 3 a lot, and Diablo II.
Mike Phillips: If I had a net connection at home, I'd probably be playing a lot of Gloom (Q2 mod), also.
Stéphane Peter: I also played a lot of RT2 in the past.
Andrew Henderson: I'd have to say either "MDK2" or "C&C: Red Alert", depending on what type of game I'm in the mood for.
Andy Mecham: Red Alert! RA and TA multiplayer!
Daniel Vogel: Yes, you usually try to avoid the games you port.
Daniel Vogel: You might find a bug.
Linux.com: Do you guys avoid playing your own games under Linux, fearing you'll find something you have to fix?
Sam Lantinga: That's not true, I played a lot of Civ, and Heroes 3, and quite a bit of SMAC, come to think of it.
Mike Phillips: I'm glad I'm not porting anything, then... I can go home and enjoy 'em all.
Sam Lantinga: The nice thing is that if you find a bug, you can fix it.
Sam Lantinga: Ryan, yes.
Scott Draeker: I played a lot of Civ CTP. Love that game.
Stéphane Peter: No, I just get sick of playing the game all day to debug it.
Daniel Vogel: I leave it to QA to break my games.
Mike Phillips: And that we do!
Andrew Henderson: I have excellent luck with our stuff. I hardly ever trigger bugs.
Linux.com: Speaking of QA, how does it work at Loki?
Scott Draeker: We have a full time QA staff.
Linux.com: They play games all day, and get paid for it?
Scott Draeker: Yup!
Sam Lantinga: It works very well, actually. Our standards are very high, and we test a wide variety of configurations, plus our beta testers rock.
Mike Phillips: Well, and answer support e-mail.
Andy Mecham: Yep.
Mike Phillips: And get a lot of help from our beta-testers.
Scott Draeker: Mike Phillips was such a good beta tester that we offered him a job.
Andrew Henderson: We have the best beta testers in the industry. I'd put up 50 of our beta folks against 500 Win32 beta testers any day.
Andy Mecham: SMAC is evidence of that.
Andy Mecham: They found things that I don't think anyone else would have.
Scott Draeker: Agreed. We often know more about a game than the original developer does.
Daniel Vogel: There are some really smart people out there that helped me fix bugs in UT.
Sam Lantinga: Not only SMAC, but the full planetary pack expansion with several patches.
Sam Lantinga: Vogel, yeah.
Daniel Vogel: One of them went in there with a debugger to change and tweak stuff and then mailed me what to do.
Andrew Henderson: These guys are hard-core.
Ryan C. Gordon: That dude was nuts.
Ryan C. Gordon: But he should be working for NASA or something.
Andy Mecham: We get binaries, put them through the wringer, check/verify bug reports, and send a report to the developers...
Andy Mecham: And then start the process over again.
Andrew Henderson: ...and over again.
Andy Mecham: There's much more than that, but that's the basic process.
Stéphane Peter: The endless loop of QA...
Andy Mecham: It's FUN!
Scott Draeker: And we make tools like Fenris to keep some sanity in the dev/qa/dev process.
Mike Phillips: Not to mention,we usually hunt bugs prior to the first beta, too, which shortens the cycle a little but at some point you want the extra eyes.
Mike Phillips: Fenris helps a lot.
Andy Mecham: Without Fenris, it would be flat impossible.
Mike Phillips: Well, that too.
Linux.com: Okay, next question.
Linux.com: What's the name of the closest pizza place to Loki?
Scott Draeker: R&R
Andy Mecham: Round Table
Daniel Vogel: Round Table
Andrew Henderson: Round Table!
Daniel Vogel: Peppinos is quite close, too.
Scott Draeker: R&R delivers, and they know us by name.
Andy Mecham: There's also that Roma d'Italia.
Andy Mecham: They know my voice.
Mike Phillips: S------y's is closer, but I'm told it's, um, not all that good.
Stéphane Peter: We often go to Round Table for the pinball machines.
Andy Mecham: "Hey, I'd like to order a pizza!"
Andy Mecham: "Okay, Andy... are you at the office, or at home?"
Ryan C. Gordon: Hmm...Peppinos.
Mike Phillips: Yeah, pinball... mmmmm.....
Sam Lantinga: Roma d'Italia is way better than Peppinos. I don't know if you guys have tried it.
Daniel Vogel: People at jack in the box know me...
Ryan C. Gordon: Hahahaha!
Andy Mecham: I lived next to Roma d'Italia in Fountain Valley.
Ryan C. Gordon: Oh, man.
Sam Lantinga: Andy rocks at pinball.
Scott Draeker: Andy is the pinball king.
Stéphane Peter: Sam, better than Peppinos for Italian food or for pizza only?
Scott Draeker: Andrew keeps the pinball machine running.
Andrew Henderson: I was hired for pinball maintenance, I think.
Scott Draeker: Andrew is the only one in the office with a soldering iron on his desk.
Linux.com: What music do you guys listen to in the office, and do you tend to agree on the tunes?
Ryan C. Gordon: We have holy wars over the music in this office.
Andy Mecham: Funny... Mike and I justhad a holy war over music!
Mike Phillips: I like quiet stuff. Andy likes noisy stuff. Not surprisingly, I usually lose.
Ryan C. Gordon: Basically, this office is a war between cheesy 80's music (Andrew), dirty hippie music (me), and Irish folk music (bernd).
Linux.com: Do you like conference appearances? If so, why? If not, why not?
Daniel Vogel: Free beer!
Scott Draeker: Meeting the users rocks.
Andy Mecham: Free t-shirts!
Stéphane Peter: Yeah, all other pieces of attire.
Scott Draeker: Sneakers?
Sam Lantinga: I like meeting the customers. I love that, and showing games. That's fun.
Mike Phillips: Haven't been to a conference yet, I'm looking forward to the chance to go.
Scott Draeker: Comdex is right around the corner.
Stéphane Peter: When is Comdex?
Scott Draeker: November something.
Andrew Henderson: Conferences are good because usually only the really outgoing folks e-mail us. At shows we get to meet the 'silent majority.'
Andy Mecham: Yep.
Daniel Vogel: You meet a lot of cool people at trade shows.
Andy Mecham: Although some of them come with tech support questions that you can't answer on the spot.
Scott Draeker: Yup. It's a different crowd. LUGs are great, too. Yet another crowd.
Linux.com: What was the coolest conference for Loki, and why?
Scott Draeker: I liked winning Best of Show at LWCE in August...
Sam Lantinga: For me anyway, it reminds me why I care about my job. It's not just about the games, it's about people having fun, enjoying our work.
Andy Mecham: LWCE in San Jose.
Sam Lantinga: Yeah, San Jose was great.
Andrew Henderson: Scott, That was a good show for you in particular. You won a glass penguin.
Scott Draeker: ALS was cool last year because we did Loki Hack there.
Scott Draeker: Yes, glass penguins are important!
Andrew Henderson: Loki Hack was the best!
Sam Lantinga: Yeah.
Scott Draeker: Next Loki Hack will be in Spring 2001 in CA.
Linux.com: What will you do there?
Andrew Henderson: Hack, of course.
Daniel Vogel: Hex on the beach?
Scott Draeker: We'll put people up for a week and make open source games at a beach resort.
Andy Mecham: w00t!
Mike Phillips: whee!
Scott Draeker: And the whole thing will be GPL and wide open on the net, public CVS, etc.
Linux.com: Who works in support?
Andy Mecham: Mike and myself.
Linux.com: Tell me about your typical day.
Mike Phillips: Read support e-mail. Answer support e-mail. Test games. Read more support e-mail. Answer more support e-mail. Answer the phone. Duplicate a couple problems. Answer more support e-mail. Write a FAQ entry or three.
Andy Mecham: Go to lunch, wash, repeat.
Mike Phillips: Actually, the workload varies alot.
Scott Draeker: 'Typically,' they get interrupted by me for some new project that needs to get done yesterday.
Mike Phillips: Some days are mostly testing, some days are mostly E-mail, especially right after a new release.
Andy Mecham: We're entering one of those periods now.
Andrew Henderson: __asm__ ("movl $code, %eax"); ...
Andrew Henderson: ... for about 16 hours at a whack.
Daniel Vogel: asm("int $03");
Mike Phillips: Since we introduced the FAQs page (http://faqs.lokigames.com/), which is a dynamically-updated FAQ/Support tool, we have at least cut down on certain types of questions.
Scott Draeker: New distributions coming out means more work for our support guys
Mike Phillips: In particular, 3D driver configuration -- which still isn't as easy as we'd like, although we have a guide at the aforementioned FAQ page.
Sam Lantinga: I have like 30 things on my TODO board, and I cycle between about 5 or 6 of them in a day.
Andrew Henderson: About 20 of those things are 'eat lunch...'
Sam Lantinga: I multi-task more than most of our developers just because I have to keep track of everything that's going on.
Sam Lantinga: Prometheus, heh. :)
Linux.com: Stéphane: What department are you in?
Andy Mecham: The French department!!
Stéphane Peter: 'Department?' Coding, although I used to do sysadmin as well in the past.
Linux.com: Tell me about your typical day.
Stéphane Peter: Get in, check E-mail, check Loki newsgroups, check news web sites, go to lunch, then endless multitasking loop between the many things that I have on my plate... that includes pinball.
Linux.com: How about Daniel Vogel?
Daniel Vogel: Well, I get in at 12 (either riding on my bike or hijacking Ryan's car), check E-mail, pick up Ryan when he calls, hang out on IRC, check news sites, read newsgroups, watch DVDs, get food, go home at around 2 and go to bed. Hmm, insert 'work' somewhere in between.
Ryan C. Gordon: All that in two hours, remember.
Daniel Vogel: Yup.
Ryan C. Gordon: I can't get my lazy butt up when Vogel does. He steps on me on his way out the door in the morning.
Stéphane Peter: Vogel has the best hourly rate among us.
Andrew Henderson: Ryan also sleeps on the floor here at the office.
Ryan C. Gordon: ...which is a step up from Mr. Draeker's laundry room floor.
Scott Draeker: Ryan is a great house guest.
Linux.com: What percentage of Loki employees have lived at Scott's house?
Ryan C. Gordon:...so long as you don't need to get at the washing machine.
Stéphane Peter: 110%
Scott Draeker: Maybe 70%.
Andy Mecham: I think Jason, Raf and I are probably the only ones who haven't.
Scott Draeker: Andrew is a good sport. I woke him up at what, 4am?
Linux.com: "Hey, watch the kids. Off to have another one!"
Andrew Henderson: Scott, Oh well. It was all in the line of duty. I think.
Scott Draeker: Good training for you and Traci.
Scott Draeker: My oldest, Shannon age 5, has a crush on Steve Irwin, the Crocodile Hunter.
Sam Lantinga: Scott's kids are great. Even the baby.
Linux.com: If you could pick a game to port, what would it be?
Scott Draeker: Tribes2.
Ryan C. Gordon: Halflife, to shut everyone up.
Andrew Henderson: I'd port Starcraft for the same reason.
Ryan C. Gordon Duke Nukem.
Mike Phillips: Ultima 6 and 7.
Daniel Vogel: Ryan, hahahaha
Andy Mecham: Swamp Buggy Racing, for the sheer misery of it.
Mike Phillips: Oh, and that.
Sam Lantinga: Fallout 2.
Daniel Vogel: and puppydogs?
Scott Draeker: Next Question?
Linux.com: This is going to sound strange, but what's the worst part of your jobs?
Daniel Vogel: Getting up.
Jason Kim: Times when the pinball machine doesn't work.
Andy Mecham: Having to get up in the morning sucks...
Stéphane Peter: Daniel, I was wondering if I was going to say that.
Sam Lantinga: Yeah, the way the printer keeps killing the pinball machine.
Andy Mecham: But that's not part of the job.
Ryan C. Gordon: Prometheus's music.
Daniel Vogel: "was kann man von einem Tag erwarten der mit Aufstehen anfaengt"
Andrew Henderson: Well, the air conditioning used to cut off at 5 PM. That sucked... but then we rewired the control box so it is always on.
Scott Draeker: Daniel, gut gesagt!
Mike Phillips: Getting to work early enough to man the phone for our advertised hours.
Andrew Henderson: Ryan, There is nothing wrong with Jimmy Buffett.
Ryan C. Gordon: Andrew, Oh, you are so wrong.
Ryan C. Gordon: Parrot head.
Linux.com: What's the best part of your jobs?
Mike Phillips: Heh. 'Testing.'
Scott Draeker: We keep weird hours, so the local police tend to keep an eye on us.
Daniel Vogel: The best part is when something suddenly works.
Andy Mecham: Getting paid to play games just doesn't suck.
Sam Lantinga: Yeah.
Mike Phillips: And working with all these great people!
Sam Lantinga: Making cool games.
Ryan C. Gordon: Making games. Period.
Stéphane Peter: Getting pulled over is a sport here.
Andrew Henderson: I kinda like sleeping on bean bag chairs in the office during compiles.
Daniel Vogel: It's fun to watch over someone's shoulder when he gets to display anything on the screen for the first time.
Andy Mecham: Pinball.
Scott Draeker: The best part is when someone writes in to tell us that they bought a game and loved it, were impressed with the quality, and want to buy everything we ever do.
Mike Phillips: Mmmm, pinball rocks, too.
Andrew Henderson: Come to think of it, repairing the pinball machine is pretty fun, too...
Daniel Vogel: Andrew is rather calm.
Ryan C. Gordon: ...when a new shipment of drinks shows up.
Jason Kim: Watching Andrew fix the pinball machine is fascinating.
Mike Phillips: And the raves sent to email@example.com by satisfied customers. A breath of fresh air from fixing broken 3D driver installs.
Sam Lantinga: Stephane eats snails, 'nuff said.
Andrew Henderson: Watching me get electrocuted by the pinball machine is pretty fun, too.
Sam Lantinga: Yeah, and seeing happy customers.
Andy Mecham: Or the monitor on my Rastan machine.
Scott Draeker: and stories about the cleaning crew playing darts
Sam Lantinga: And knowing what our next games are before everyone else.
Linux.com: What's the most popular support question at the moment?
Andy Mecham: Some variation of "My 3d drivers don't work."
Mike Phillips: "[3D title] runs sooooo slowly. Fix it!"
Mike Phillips: "OK. Configure your 3D drivers correctly, please."
Linux.com: What game have you ported that has caused the biggest support hassle?
Andy Mecham: We spend an inordinate amount of time helping people set up video and sound drivers.
Scott Draeker: Quake III was the biggest support burden.
Mike Phillips: All of the 3D games have the same 3D driver issues.
Andy Mecham: Been eclipsed by UT.
Scott Draeker: Short term blip.
Mike Phillips: However, the games which bring Windows users in (UT/Q3A) tend to be the largest impact.
Mike Phillips: No, not short-term blip. It's still out pacing everything else.
Andy Mecham: We actually don't get much (if at all) quake support anymore.
Scott Draeker: Biggest Q3 support question (after 3D setup) "I bought the Windows version, how do I get it running on Linux" -- we love hearing from those folks.
Andy Mecham: oh yes
Scott Draeker: Yup.
Mike Phillips: Because the questions which bring in new users from Windows tend to have people who are running Linux for the first time associated with them, and that means a rapid learning curve for them (and a lot of patient explanations from us).
Scott Draeker: We have FAQs for those folks. Support is for customers.
Scott Draeker: Thing is, we do help (in the form of FAQs and stuff). We want Windows users trying Linux.
Mike Phillips: It was one of the major FAQ incentives, actually.
Mike Phillips: And updated frequently as questions become common.)
Scott Draeker: There's also a new version of Fenris on the way, complete with a pretty front end.
Jason Kim: Yup!
Linux.com: Tell me about all the new stuff!
Scott Draeker: FAQ list, Fenris 2.0.
Sam Lantinga: More stuff for support folks too. :)
Scott Draeker: We just released a new version of SMPEG which has hooks for hardware accelerated MPEG playback.
Scott Draeker: We'll be rolling out new distribution services. Make our stuff easier to buy.
Scott Draeker: OpenAL will go 1.0 very soon.
Stéphane Peter: Andrew, we need you to be alive to fix the pinball machine.
Scott Draeker: And some other projects in the background.
Andrew Henderson: Well, okay. 37 times.
Ryan C. Gordon: In a row.
Andrew Henderson: There was a sneeze in there.
Scott Draeker: Sam, want to do a quick summary of QAgent?
Sam Lantinga: Sure. When the game crashes, it automatically runs a system diagnostic tool which prompts for product updates and provides information for technical support.
Sam Lantinga: It has hooks for optional encryption for data sent to technical support, and what else..
Scott Draeker: 'If' a game crashes...
Sam Lantinga: It's just a handy thing for Q/A.
Sam Lantinga: Right.
Sam Lantinga: It's very useful for betas, and it gives the customer a way for them to directly feed back to Q/A.
Linux.com: Anything else new and interesting? Anyone get a new car?
Andy Mecham: I did.
Stéphane Peter: Andy did.
Daniel Vogel: I will buy a car soon.
Daniel Vogel: Anyone willing to take me car shopping?
Stéphane Peter: Daniel, still looking for a cheesy American car?
Mike Phillips: I just moved, so I can't afford anything.
Andy Mecham: Vogel has his eye on a 1983 Caddy.
Scott Draeker: I know the general manager at a Chevy dealership.
Daniel Vogel: Scott, used cars?
Scott Draeker: New and used. We got our 4Runner from him (he used to be GM at a Toyota dealership).
Stéphane Peter: Daniel, dealerships often have a used car section.
Daniel Vogel: I want a cheap used car.
Andy Mecham: I'm trying to find a hearse for him.
Scott Draeker: Used ice cream truck!
Andy Mecham: YES!
Andrew Henderson: That will get the women.